Bedroom Tax – the DEFINING moment as UT decision makes it history!!

150,000 households have been wrongly and unlawfully charged the bedroom tax and for the past three years … now that the precedent setting Upper Tribunal has finally decided what is a bedroom.

In a decision not yet available of which I have a copy the Upper Tribunal has ruled that a room to be a bedroom and meet 31(a) of the Nelson decision, to be of sufficient size, configuration and overall dimensions, that a room :-

“…should be capable of accommodating a single adult bed, a bedside table and somewhere to store clothes (see paragraph 33 of Nelson), as well as providing space for dressing and undressing.”

I have done the arithmetic and the geometry using standard sizes of the above which I first discussed in 2013 and then more accessibly here and for a room to be of a sufficient size to accommodate the above and be a bedroom it needs to have an absolute minimum floor space of 6.114 square metres or 65.81 square feet.

Note well that those absolute minimum floor space sizes are for a room of regular shape and so a room which is L-shaped or is unusually narrow in width or length will need to have greater floor space than this.  This absolute minimum size does not factor in any physical features or drawbacks [Nelson 64(v)] such as surface mounted electrical sockets and conduits or Pendox skirting and so on that would make the minimum room size needing to be greater.

Further note that the room has to conform to the rest of the Nelson criteria at 31(b) access; AND 31(c) natural and electric lighting; AND 31(d) ventilation; AND 31(e) privacy AND 64(i),(ii),(iii),(iv) and (iv).  You can also note that the storage of clothes is also stated as necessary at 22 in Nelson as well.

Most importantly, this is a zero sum game and ALL of the above tests for a room to be a bedroom have to be met and on an individual case by case basis for every claimant (see Nelson at 54) – and if just one of these tests or criteria is not met, then the room is NOT a bedroom.

The 150,000 figure is an educated guess  – and equates to one-third of households that currently are affected by the bedroom tax – and it is based on the fact that over 36% of all social rented properties are ‘deemed’ to be 3 bedded (EHS 2014) and the overwhelming majority of those are in housing jargon the 3B/5P or two double bedrooms and a single bedroom that is more accurately and lawfully described as a box room and not a bedroom.

ch454p3

I highlighted the relevant part of the decision above and I do so again because so many judges at First-tier, so many tenants and so many councils wrongly believe that Nelson says a room is a bedroom if it can fit a single bed or other legal fiction because they are too lazy or too predisposed not to read it properly.

This decision puts the flesh on the bones of Nelson and says it as it is – that a room to be a bedroom ….

“…should be capable of accommodating a single adult bed, a bedside table and somewhere to store clothes (see paragraph 33 of Nelson), as well as providing space for dressing and undressing.”

Make no mistake this is the DEFINING moment of the Bedroom Tax and the one that will make the policy history.  I also expect a number of imminent decisions from the Upper Tribunal that will ratify the above and further substantiate the above decision, and put more flesh on the bones by defining what the terms access and privacy and others actually mean in practical and understandable terms.

For example and given that a room to be a bedroom requires free floor space (see also Nelson 22) and above for dressing and undressing – a normal activity that we do in the privacy of a bedroom – means that privacy does not mean the door can close as many lazy minded FtT judges have said recently and committed errors of law in failing to consider what they should have considered!

What do tenants do now?

You appeal the bedroom tax decision about to begin next week and below is the text of a 1 page letter you can and should use (and please freely copy and paste) and you need to print off and sign it and hand it in to your local council (note NOT your landlord but your local council).  Get a receipt or make a copy and the rest will follow and pretty soon the government will be forced to abandon the policy given the estimated £1.26 billion this will cost them at tribunal.

______________________________

 

Date: ____________________        Re:    Social Sector Size Criteria (Bedroom Tax)

To:    Housing Benefit Department of _____________________________ Council

Dear Sirs,

I request a  reconsideration of your HB decision to take affect from April 2016 known as the bedroom tax and to make a lawful decision following the Upper Tribunal ruling and legal precedents you have to follow of what is and is not a bedroom in Nelson, [2014] UKUT 0525 (AAC) from 26 November 2014.

Nelson says that if a room is less than the minimum standard of 520 cubic feet then the council as decision maker has a “…need to provide reasons why, in the particular case, either is or is not too small” at paragraph 55.  Further at 54 that “…Parliament intended to allow decision makers to take account of all relevant circumstances on a case by case basis.”  I maintain you have not considered all my relevant circumstances to include a number of case-sensitive factors it says you must at [31] such as (a) size, configuration and overall dimensions. 

Nelson at [31] also says a room has to have (b) access, (c) natural and electric lighting, (d) ventilation and (e) privacy.  It further says at [33] that a room to be a bedroom has to include the storage of clothes (also at 22) and somewhere for a glass of water: A room needs to have free floor space to get dressed and undressed [33] to be of normal height and be heated in the same way as other rooms [64] and these are facts that you cannot have considered as you have not seen the disputed room(s)..

I further direct you to the Upper Tribunal decision in case CH/454/2015 that decided at [6] that for a room to be classified as a bedroom and fleshing out [31(a)] of Nelson “…should be capable of accommodating a single adult bed, a bedside table and somewhere to store clothes (see paragraph 33 of Nelson), as well as providing space for dressing and undressing.” 

I maintain rooms in my property do not meet the UT criteria to be deemed as bedrooms due to size, configuration and overall dimensions and I am seeking a full reconsideration of your decision that my property has the number of bedrooms you state it has.  Please give your response in writing, stating when you will be coming out to inspect my property with at least 72 hours notice. I await your full and considered response.  

Yours faithfully

 

 

Name:   HB Reference

NINO

 
Address:  

 

_________________________________________________________________

The above as formatted will fit onto 1 side of A4 so if the many Trades Unions and others who printed off many thousands of blanks of the original template letter I drafted back in 2013 and wish to distribute, then again feel free to do so.

By the way if it is 150,000 who have been unlawfully charged the bedroom tax this is a further £120 million less of a ‘saving’ to the DWP from this pernicious back of a fag packet policy or half a billion this parliament if the new DWP minister does decide (or is told by the Treasury) to continue with this pig’s earhole.  Welcome to your new job Stephen Crabb!

For those eagle-eyed persons and inveterate naysayers who will say wasn’t Davie Nelson’s case ruled to be a bedroom when it measured 8 ft x 8 ft (Nelson 64(v)] and thus 64 square feet and so how can the absolute minimum be 65.81 square feet as the Nelson case itself is wrong in law?

The answer is that the disputed room in that individual case had built-in wardrobes leaving 64 square feet of floor space AFTER the storage of clothes and access to those clothes and hence that disputed room was of a sufficient size, configuration and overall dimension to be classified as a bedroom.  Also note that the room was actually 66.3 square feet (see Nelson at 41) and not 64 square feet as stated in [64].

What will social landlords do?

As usual panic and stupidly and wrongly believe they will have to reclassify thousands of properties and reduce the rents on them – Nothing could be further from the truth and social landlords will benefit from this and benefit from supporting their bedroom tax tenants to appeal – as a small handful of very enlightened social landlords have done all along.  You know who you are and well done again for your perspicacity and good business sense as your tenants still trust you!

Supporting tenants to appeal means you are genuinely social landlords while the majority who did not support and see this despised policy from a tenants perspective are not and they have lost tenant trust and despite what tick box satisfaction surveys you humour yourselves with!

Back on point, regardless of what guidance was issued by DWP in the A4 of 2012 and numerous knee-jerk HB circulars issued by IDS after his losing so many appeals, the HB regulations say that the decision makers in HB departments can only reduce the housing benefit level paid if the rent charged is “unreasonably high.”  (Do I really need to make the point that those who rely on HB for 75% of their ‘customers’ really should know what HB regulations actually say!!)

That case of “unreasonably high” can never be made by any local council HB department given the average social rent differential of £5.97 per week between a 2 bed and a 3 bed (HCA figures 2015/15) that is likely to be £6.10 given the 2.2% increase for 2015/6 rents.

Local councils cannot make a viable argument that £6.10 per week more for a 2 bed with a box room than a standard 2 bed without is unreasonable, and in any case there is often a much higher variance or differential between standard 2 bed only properties and in every local authority between different social landlords and even within the same social landlord.

In short, social landlords would be stupid not to support their tenants to appeal on room size, or more specifically size, configuration and overall dimensions as stated in Nelson and clarified in practical and readily understandable terms in the above.

General

I have advocated for over three years that the best way to get rid of the bedroom tax is the appeal route through to tribunal.  The above decision proves I was right and it is worth putting that into context and into figures.

The current decisions under consideration by the Supreme Court may take 280 women and their children out of the bedroom tax with a sanctuary room if that appeal court decision is upheld.  If my 150,000 estimate is accurate this is over 500 times more taken out of the bedroom tax.  Even if the ‘size’ issue only takes out 100,000 that is still 230,000 men women and children taken out of this despised back of a fag packet policy – that is what makes me smile and not that I was right.

To all those naysayers and detractors who slated my advocacy of the appeal route – and that was the term the Chartered Institute of Housing (England) despicably used in a placed story in Inside Housing back in early 2013 – then you were wrong and badly wrong and you have never apologised for that despicable slur and despicable story, so you deserve no respect or credibility and all of my scorn.

Here is that despicable article and attempt at a professional character assassination on me: –

slatejoehalewood

So, dear reader, if you have ever wondered why I occasionally give both barrels at times to housing umbrella groups and housing journalists and the ‘great and the good’ housing omniscienti whose heads are so far up their own …

If tenants had taken my advice and/or are still in the appeal system as many 2013 cases still are, then you would get all the bedroom tax you have had deducted back, all three years of it.  Yet because most did not in the numbers you should have done – and you were actively discouraged from appealing by the likes of the above as well as most landlords and all local councils with their legal fictions and myths of you signed for a 3 bed therefore it is a 3 bed and so on – you will only be able to claim against this years decision and have the bedroom tax stopped from this April if your alleged ‘bedroom’ is not of a sufficient size, configuration and overall dimension.

If that last paragraph reads as bitterness, it is self-directed for not being able to persuade you and especially because perhaps 345,000 or even more men women and children have suffered the indignity and unlawfulness of the ideological back of a fag packet bedroom tax.  It’s not bitterness reader, its anger!

Now it is time to take action dear tenant to get rid of the hated bedroom tax by embarking on an appeal, which costs you absolutely nothing and is your absolute right; and let’s be brutally honest you can’t exactly rely on your so-called ‘social’ landlord to finally do the right thing can you!

Donate Button with Credit Cards

 

Advertisements

85 thoughts on “Bedroom Tax – the DEFINING moment as UT decision makes it history!!

  1. If I have understood this article correctly, not only can those tenants who have been forced to pay for what the higher court has ruled was NOT an extra bedroom, but that any council who charged tenants for an illegal extra bedroom on their Community Tax, but failed to give them the extra money, will also be due a refund?
    What about all those homes where disabled people have had to occupy a dining room separate from the lounge/kitchen as is the case in some houses. Will they now be able to claim this room as a dining room under Community Tax laws rather than a house with an extra bedroom? Reagan(Channel 4 programme about benefit), was in a d/s room so his mum did not have to carry him up and down stairs and was able to hear him and respond quickly. When Reagan died, the council told her she had to pay bed tax on the room he had occupied in a two bed house. Her younger son had the other bedroom u/s.

    1. No, that is the absolute minimum floor space in a regular shaped room. It will be larger than this in a L shaped room or other irregular shaped room as the post states

      1. March 31, 2016 at 9:45 pm

        I started appeal and I am in court on the 5th April 2016 I am appealing the size of the room as its a l shape with floor space of 51 sqft

      2. I went to curt I gave the judge this info and when I gave him it he could not give my a answer if I have won the appeal or not so playing the waiting game and my landlord is on my back again

      3. The judge will have to consider it and likely will not have read the case in question. Tell your landlord you will only accept communication in writing if you feel hassled with calls or texts is a simple solution

  2. i see and understand the letter and its contents, my question is IF this ignored by these councils is there a further follow up letter making them refund these monies ????????

      1. Hi joe many thanks for your letter template which I used my council came out measured my room. Which was less than 64sqft. I had a letter today from council saying they agree with me and applying the nelson case they have now awarded me full housing benefit from the start of my tenancy. I am really happy thanks to your wonderful work and all your articles which I read all the time.

      2. Hi joe many thanks for your letter template which I used my council came out measured my room. Which was less than 64sqft. I had a letter today from council saying they agree with me and applying the nelson case they have now awarded me full housing benefit from the start of my tenancy. Its really great news thanks

  3. I re-measured my bedroom tax box room and taking into account the radiator and a wooden wiring holder, 65.8 ft squared is what it measures. Council bungalow, supported housing. Still awaiting this years HB and bedroom tax/DHP decisions.
    I appealed the 2013 bedroom tax charge and it took two years for a decision to arrive. Because I received a DHP to cover the charge the appeal was ended.

  4. Hi Joe
    I have an L shaped room which I’ve measaured as best I can as 66.87 sq ft. The only place a bed and bedside table would fit would be partially covering a radiator.
    I’ve previously tried to challange my council re Bedroom Tax as Social Services wanted me to alter the use to a room containing equipment to assist with my disability but the Council challanged me, even with the information I’d quoted from yourself re what is considered a bedroom etc as well as aforementioned change of use, and wanted to go to tribunial and at the time I’ll be honest I didn’t have that battle in me and so I backed off.
    I’m now wondering if I can challange them again with the room being L shaped and barely the sq ft of what is considered a bedroom. I also pointed out to them there is a cupboard in there that would be considered a form of airing cupboard and therefore would need constant access in there which would negate privacy for the room user but they were extrememly petty in therir reply and I felt totally undermined; I’ve kept copies of all correspondence and am happy to share if it would help.
    In your opnion would I have a case to challange them on the Bedroom Tax now the UT have issued these guidelines? Many thanks, Melissa

    1. ps. when I measured the room I did it from skirting board and not from the radiator which intrudes into the room and so I guess the length is a little less than I used in the calculation so lessens the sq ft a little more!

  5. Does this ruling apply in general to rents? We are charged by a HA for a two-bedroomed property despite the second bedroom only measuring around 5′ x 2.5′. No, that isn’t a typo. Wages aren’t high and we’ve been struggling for years. We did ask a few years ago for the HA to reclassify the home as one bedroomed to get the rent lowered but they refused.

    I’m really hoping this can be used.

      1. Just remeasured, was a while since I had. 79″ x 40″ There is an extra 12″ x 27″ at the entrance that is smaller due to a chimney breast. We can’t even fit a single bed in the room due to the door, skirting boards and chimney breast, and the carpet company thought we had mismeasured when we moved in and ordered our carpet.

        Our landlord is a local housing association. We were homeless when we accepted the property and when we tried to get the property reclassified as one-bedroomed we were told we couldn’t as we had signed the tenancy agreement accepting it as two-bedroomed.

  6. I took a tenancy on 2 years ago, 12 months ago I had appealed the bedroom tax, and for 12 months I have been fighting my council (still being charged) to have my home reduced from a 3 to a 2 bedroom. With the final help of my local MP and an independent surveyor the council have reduced the property from a 3 to a 2 bedroom. They have agreed to refund the previous 12 months but I am back to my MP as I don’t agree that I should have been penalised for the first 12 months of my tenancy. What do you think? Where do I stand? Thank you Vicky

    1. The above is potentially ambiguous and also needs further detail such as has your landlord which presumably is the council reduced your rent level when accepting it is a 2 bed not a 3 bed property?

      It appears you did not appeal the bedroom tax in the first year and as such you were charged it wrongly as one room was not a bedroom. Yet because you failed to appeal in the first there is no way to claim back the bedroom tax through a tribunal appeal and you can only make an unrelated claim to your landlord who it appears has overcharged you in the first year. In short, because you did not appeal there is no way you can reclaim the bedroom tax wrongly deducted

  7. I don’t understand. I currently receive HB at the full Local Housing Rate for a 3 bed property. When the bedroom tax comes into effect when my kids leave uni I will have first 1, then 2 ‘spare’ rooms. If one of those rooms were redefined as a box room surely my HB would be reduced to the Local Housing Rate for a 2 bed property – so how is this any different to the bedroom tax?

    1. If you are in a private rented property you qualify for the Local Housing Allowance (LHA) rate for the household need. This is currently the 3 bed rate. If 1 child leaves university you then qualify for the 2 bed rate. When your 2nd child leaves university you qualify for the 1 bed rate of LHA. The LHA varies from one place to another. Under the bedroom tax which is for social housing, you qualify now for 100% of your rent which then falls to a set 86% of rent when 1st child leaves: it will then fall to 75% of your eligible rent when the 2nd child leaves university.

      This set percentage in social housing differs from LHA as in some areas of the country the 1 bed LHA rate is enough to cover 100% of a 3 bed private rent

      1. Ah, I forgot there was a difference between treatment for private/social housing. But we lose out either way. Just have to hope the kids want to return home and contributes to the rent then, otherwise I’ll have to move to a 2 bed then a 1 bed place, and the kids will have nowhere to return to while they try to establish themselves in the workplace. Or hope I get enough PIP to use it on the rent shortfall and bu@@er any help with living.

  8. hi joe i lost my ftt march 3rd 2016 i am now awaiting statement of reasons too see if any error in law. the room in question is just 50sqft and L shaped with a boiler cupboard that opens into the room, the judge said while it was small it could be used as a bedroom, we never used it as such from day we moved in september 2013. would i be correct in thinking that becuase of this ruling we may be able to argue error in law, i also dont believe they took into consideration all our valid evidence but will have to wait for the full statement of reasons the judge received the request 12th march 2016. if you wish i can send you a copy of the room plan. thank you

  9. Hi Joe. I lost at FTT around two years ago, having appealed that 2 bedrooms were too small to be considered as such. Should my next move be to send the letter for which you’ve kindly provided the template?

  10. This is fine for law of size BUT where do disabled people stand. AND what about all those who lost their homes, because they had to downsize as they could not afford to lose their benefit money.

    1. Firstly, size applies to all alleged bedrooms so will be included. Secondly, appeal grounds on disability discrimination are awaiting a Supreme Court decision expected in May.

  11. I thought you may be interested in my most recent exchange of correspondence with Brighton and Hove City Council over the recent Upper Tribunal Ruling (zip file attached).

    On 31 March 2016 at 13:18, SPeye Joe (Welfarewrites) wrote:

    > joehalewood posted: “150,000 households have been wrongly and unlawfully > charged the bedroom tax and for the past three years … now that the > precedent setting Upper Tribunal has finally decided what is a bedroom. In > a decision not yet available of which I have a copy the” >

  12. Bedroom size for bedroom tax, if to small does that also count for under occupation, please help if you have the answer and where can I find it, in court 02/06/2016 really worried.

  13. If you read the above artical Joe wrote your question is answered! And the simple answer is ‘yes’ if the room is smaller than the area Joe wrote of above and/or may not be a square room there are excellent ground for an appeal against paying the Bedroom Tax. Good luck!

  14. So let me get this right, the actual “sizes” quoted here dont really exist ? no Court has ever stated a size in square feet, cubic feet, or any other actual measurement ? and the sizes given above are the author’s interpretation of what size a bedroom should be ?
    Even if it is “based” on decisions made at Tribunal, its not exactly truthful is it. I put a lot of effort into appealing my own bedroom tax decision, I relied heavily on the information given here, the bedroom in my appeal is 2 sqr ft smaller than the author says is legal but my Council just shot me down in flames, they quoted the Law right back at me and after a lot of reading I have to agree that I dont have a case for appeal, these sizes are only hinted at in the ruling.
    Either post an actual decision quoting the Judge where he gives measurements, or explain to people this is NOT the case and apologise for wasting peoples time !

    1. What Molly says is correct, but why anyone wants to help someone whose anger is directed at anyone on this blog and not at the person(s) at your council shows just how generous people are Turkey believe in the cause of assisting others and sharing information.

    2. Did they quote ‘Nelson’? The latest UT decision? If so, then you’ll know that you DO have reason to go to appeal! The room must be able to accommodate ‘A normal size adult bed, bedside table, chest of drawers, somewhere to store clothes AND have room for dressing and undressing’ Does the room in question meet this criteria?

  15. So, your council have said you can’t be exempted on the room size? It is up to the Tribunal to decide. You just tell your council to refer your appeal to First Tier tribunal.

  16. Unless Ive read this wrong, you sent in the appeal letter, the council came out to measure (the room is 63sq. ft.) and they told you you don’t have an appeal reason? And you’ve accepted that? Sorry If Ive misunderstood your post, but if not, then you write back to your council and tell them to forward your appeal to tribunal.

  17. If I sounded angry I apologise, I had just received the Councils decision to deny my appeal and was upset. I followed this blog in making my appeal and quoted the room size given above as being written in Law, (which I thought it was), but now it seems it’s not actually in Law and I felt very foolish.

    The Council quoted the following UT findings to me as reason for denial of appeal…….

    a room which is capable of being reasonably used as a bedroom by anyone included in the list contained in regulation B 13(5) and (6)

    it need not be for full-time occupation and of this nature, but may be short term or irregular occupation by an overnight guest or carer.

    It is of reasonable height

    it has a window

    it is heated and ventilated in a similar way to other rooms used as bedrooms and living rooms, and

    Even if it is a small room, it does not have any physical features or draw backs that prevent it being used as a bedroom for a child, an overnight carer or an adult (on a full or part time basis)

    If the bedroom satisfies the above it is classed as a bedroom even if you consider it to be too small.

    The Council did not come out to measure the room, I invited them to do so but they said it was unnecessary.

    I dont see how I can fight this if I cant find anything relating to the Law and actual room size, if I’m wrong then please show me where these rules are, rules about the actual size giving dimensions, isn’t that what this Blog was about in the first place ? the “defining” moment ?

    1. Apology accept 😃
      However, in refusing to come and measure the room you’re automatically allowed to say to them that you are going to Tribunal.

      They’ve fobbed you off, to put it bluntly, and by refusing at your invitation to come and measure the roommate shot themselves in the foot.
      All they are doing is making you feel you have no right of appeal to continue your fight, when in fact you have every right.
      It beggars belief how they can pass a judgement when they’ve not even seen the room! It is up to them to prove it’s not a viable room and how can they have done that? They haven’t!

      Don’t give up. See it through.

    2. Zak66man

      A) You say “…I had just received the Councils decision to deny my appeal…” Your council CANNOT deny an appeal and they have to forward it to the First tier Tribunal.

      B) Your council – and please do name them – selectively quote some parts of the UT decision in Nelson and, SURPRISE, SURPRISE, conveniently do not mention THE most significant part of Nelson decision which says that if you ask them to review the decision then they HAVE to state why the disputed room is or is not a bedroom and to do that they do have to come out and visit the room in question.

      C) Your council also appear to have completely disregarded some post Nelson decisions of the UT including the case of CH454/2015 that the letter mentions, the one that says the room size and its layout, shape and configuration have to be capable of accommodating a standard sized adult single bed, bedside table, the storage of clothes and free floor space in which to dress and undress. This being a UT decision makes it the law that your council HAS to follow.

      My 65 sq/feet posit was extremely carefully written as geometrically it needs a regular shaped room of at least this floor size to accommodate all the things the law in the UT say it has to accommodate in oreer to be a bedroom

      You, like thousands of others, choose to believe your council when it deliberately and highly selectively quotes Nelson yet totally ignores the parts of Nelson and post-Nelson UT decisions that it does not like.

  18. Thank you guys, I’m no quitter but I just got through my second Work Capability Assessment fiasco, I’m a bit drained, the thought of another Tribunal is depressing stuff. I think I need a couple of days to get myself sorted out then try agian, they really are doing a job on us 😦

    Does it have to be a Tribunal or can I appeal their decision ? considering their decision was based on wrong information and the fact they didnt come out to measure.

    BTW, it’s North Tyneside Council, and to their shame, its a Labour Council. I could write a book about their incompetance and corruption.

    1. You can state you request a paper based tribunal hearing, though statistically s hearing in person has a 60% greater chance of winning. It has to be a tribunal and ahead of it taking place you can ask the tribunal to direct the council to come out and measure and view the disputed room

    2. Sorry to hear aboyt the WCA; I’ve recently had a PIP Assessment which they completely mucked up & the report wasn’t fit for purpose so had to go through the entire thing a 2nd time!

      Anyway, you may find that by standing your ground the council rethink their decision and don’t even go to tribunal & decide in your favour. If not, is it possible for you to have the support of an Advocate to assist you in getting all your paperwork ready for Tribunal?

  19. Short of paying a Solicitor, finding an advocate will be hard up here, there are only 2 help organisations left and there very busy, but I think I can get through it myself if I’m feeling better by then, I know what to expect now. In the mean time I’ll write back to NTC and point out why the decision was wrong and ask them to reconsider otherwise I go to Tribunal, its worth a try !

  20. This is very interesting for me. I cannot find anything relating to councils own definition of a minimum bedroom size for one of their own properties but have found minimum bedroom size requirements listed on council websites for privately rented houses of multiple occupation. Both Canterbury and Chelmsford Councils say a bedroom where there is access to other shared living rooms should be a minimum of 6.5 m sq or 70 sq ft. Why doesn’t this apply to their own properties too?

  21. Yes, when I made my first appeal 2 years ago it was based on the size given for privately rented accommodation, 70 sq ft, they completely ignored this saying I had taken the tenancy as 3 bedroom and I had no grounds for appeal. Funny how they can twist their own rules to suit their purposes.
    Does anyone know when the new ruling will be available ? can we get a copy somehow ? I really need something in black and white that I can fight back with.

    1. The law around bedroom tax is changing by the month – as it does with all new benefit issues and it is only when cases get to the Upper Tribunal that new law and interpretation is set. 18 months ago saw the Nelson decision which said a bedroom is not up to the landlord and that has now had further clarifications since with the latest being a room to be a bedroom as in the decision above. If you care to read the above you will find a reference to the latest rulings

  22. It’s months now since I started sending emails to my local council, 9 in total, now they wont even reply to me.
    Has anyone ever won using the above ? has any Council anywhere in the UK ever backed down because of the above ?
    People using this information and spending time fighting this tax deserve to know if there really is any hope.

    1. wondered how you are getting on?? Zak666man. You should always write a letter to them. Then they have to reply. Keep a copy and send by recorded delivery or if handed in, get a receipt. Then, you have a paper trail for proof.. Yes, people are winning appeals. Join the Facebook appeal group, for help and support

  23. I may be missing something but as far as I can see para 33 of Nelson doesn’t read as described. See [2014] UKUT 525 (AAC). Is the reference to para 33 a typo? Should it be another para? Or am I looking in the wrong place?

    1. In what way? Paragraph 33 relates to what is and is not reasonable in terms of what is and is not a bedroom which includes as the UT says in relation to storage and all other aspects of bedroom elements

Please leave a Reply

Please log in using one of these methods to post your comment:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s